Spurs Banter Archive April 08 2015

 

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08 Apr 2015 15:40:17
Ed001

I am not sure you have understood my point.

I wasn't trying to compile a meaningful statistical profile of Crouch or Dawson that would allow me to rank them against other players in the Premiership. The Opta stats are supposed to do that and I have already said that I treat them with caution.

When Crouch and Dawson were at the club, the only issue was whether we should play them from the start, given the other options that were available. Many Spurs fans just saw their limitations as players and said "No way, Jose."

My subjective impression was that both were earning the right to be in our starting line-up, given the alternatives. I just wanted to see if there was any support for that impression. There was.

If I was to do a similar survey of the results when Rose has played, it would be for the same reason: is there any evidence to suggest we do better with him in the team than with the other options? I don't know yet.

In assessing whether Rose is a player who is worth keeping. or one who needs to be replaced as a matter of urgency, I am forced to rely on my own judgement (he is).

If other people disagree, so be it.

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{Ed001's Note - no worries mate, I was just pointing out why I would not even bother with those stats, though I can see where you are coming from. I was assuming you were joining in the discussion over which players should be replaced in the summer. Apologies.}

08 Apr 2015 12:13:40
Disraeli is supposed to have said "there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." Whenever the facts fail to corroborate our own arguments we like to remind ourselves of that quip.

Obviously we should be wary about over-interpreting football statistics.

For example, I always take pass completion rates with a pinch of salt. It is easy to look good on paper if you make a lot of short, safe, sideways passes, but one good, raking ball that opens up a defence, and results in a goal, will make up for a lot of similar passes that are just slightly off target and cede possession.

I also have doubts about 'assists'. This seems to mean that a player was the last person to touch the ball before the one who scored, but does this take account of whether or not the touch was decisive?

Last season, I saw a blog that compared Soldado with Torres. It concluded that Soldado was better at keeping possession. But that was because whenever Torres got the ball he was taking on defenders and trying to make things happen, while Soldado was content just to lay the ball off.

Statistics can never replace judgement, but they are sometimes a useful corrective. We all get bees in our bonnets about certain players, so it sometimes helps to take a reality check.

A few years ago, Peter Crouch was taking a lot of stick on this site. It was my impression that Spurs generally had a better shape, and played better, when he was on the pitch than when he wasn't, despite his obvious deficiencies as a player. I knew I was a lone voice at that time, so I did an analysis of our results when he started and when he didn't. I had no idea what it would show.

In fact it was quite revealing. At home, especially, we did noticeably better when he started games than when he didn't and he was far more likely to be brought on as a sub than be substituted himself.

I did something similar when it was Dawson that was in the firing line. Again, despite the obvious weaknesses in his game, we conceded fewer goals and picked more points when he played than when he didn't (home and away and in the league and cups).

These analyses didn't prove anything because the sample sizes were too small for that, but they did help to illustrate the gap that sometimes exists between our perception about what is happening on the pitch and what is really going on.

But that doesn't stop us preferring our prejudices.

PS: For what it is worth, I also think that Rose has grown steadily into a really good player and is the defender who has come out of this season with the most credit (except for Lloris, of course), but that is just my impression. I haven't checked it yet.

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{Ed001's Note - pointless checking stats on that, as you are comparing him with Davies, just like you were only comparing Crouch with who replaced him or Dawson with his replacement. While I personally rated Crouch as a player, it doesn't necessarily mean he is good enough for the club just because he is better than the option currently there. The same with Dawson, being better than what else was available to the manager does not mean he is good enough for the club.

Stats need far more analysis than it is possible to do in one post. It takes months of analysis to be able to even get an idea of a player, let alone to then fully compare two players in the same position. That is why the likes of Comolli, with his over reliance on statistical analysis, is so hit and miss, his analysis is flawed and too shallow.}

08 Apr 2015 11:57:54
United fan in peace, I came here to see what you lot thought about your current form and saw some comments about a complete lack of desire from your players. IMO the majority of your players are just completely mentally and physically drained. Poch likes to play a high tempo pressing game and it seems to take it's toll by the back end of the season, we saw it last season when he was with saints. Really hope you can find some strength and some form from somewhere and hopefully knock city out of that 4th spot! Would be great to see you guys in the CL. Best of luck for the rest of the season lads.

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