Spurs Banter Archive January 22 2013

22 Jan 2013 22:51:40
Rumours coming up that def is injured. Could be speculation as AVB was at the celtic game but fingers crossed its a load of crap.

Jimbo

I might not be the worst thing in the world. He's hardly been performing recently and I think it would be good to either push us to sign a striker or use Siggy as a CAM and Dempsey as the frontman in a 4231.

22 Jan 2013 22:28:42
Defoe is injured..

He looked ok in the training pix today on the official site.

22 Jan 2013 20:53:33
What's would you guys think if we got diame (he is in no way a dm from what i've seen, hard worker, lil' bits of flair and solid all round technique) for 3.5m 'nd graham/hooper for 8.5m (either will get 10ish goals in the games left, especially with supply like sundays)?

13m and you have in my opinion a complete squad of 24 that will help finish this year nicely, maybe a cup and 3rd/4th. Then replace as we sell after, making sure each player coming in is world class.

We've proved already this year we can compete sufficiently with the top four. A little touching up and we can reach our goals. Then its on to the hardest process of building up to challenge for the title i.e. to add world class to an already competitive squad.

Martable

13m wasted. Why spend money on players that won't get in the first team, got plenty of them already, hudd, jenas Bentley etc. No one would of mentioned them names 12 months ago and no one will in 12 months time when they lose form. Let's spend wisely on improving the team with real quality not the latest flash in the pan

Jenas and bents arn't squad worthy at all. hudd needs to sharpen up before he can play more.
Diame been consistent for nearly 5 years, was wigans best player the whole time bar maybe figueroa (and will fill a gap in our midfield, resting parker/ sandro cover, and add some more central attacking play).
Also goals are goals. both strikers score goals no matter how rubbish. Hooper more so than Graham obviously. But they are hardly a flash in the pan. The quality will come when we have a quality outfit to join. VdV and lloris are the first big name quality players we've signed recently and they were both a steal. except for that the rest of the quality has come from youth or originally under-rated players. If we can solidify our competitive stance in the premier league top 4 then the world class will want to join and the ball starts rolling. Also already got a young second squad coming through with some extremely talented youngsters, beating all on comers. Some of these will start needing some first team exp.

Martable

Also first team over a season is more than just the starting eleven..

Martable

My point was we can't afford to spend money on players who will never be good enough to get in the team with the addded wages. Levy has tried to ship out many players in the past clogging up the wage bill (Pav, Corluka, Gio, Bassong, Pienaar, Kranjcar etc) I don't think we need to do it again. I'd much rather we spend it on a quality forward as we clearly don't have enough. If we just get Hooper or graham we will still be sitting here come the end of the season asking for a quality forward but having spent 13M already. I don't want it wasted on a 3rd choice forward or a 4th choice centre mid. That to me is madness.

22 Jan 2013 20:04:01
Hi eds, just hearing spurs have posted a loss of £4.3 million for last years accounts, do you think this will have any bearing on transfer targets ie big names ? Bearing in mind they have put losses down to not being in CL
So surely ist a must this year to finish top 3/4 ??
Cheers rich {Ed001's Note - the club will have known, to a degree, what it would be for a while, so I very much doubt it will make any difference to their plans.}

I don't think player sales and buys are accounted for? Modric, vdv, bassong, kranjkar, pienaar & corluka think that's around the £65 mill mark? Player ins vertonghan, dembele, lloris, dempsey, adebayor & gylfy cost around the£48 mill mark? that's around the £16 mill profiit mark? We've built a state of the art training ground started the groundworks on the new ground as well as purchasing materials and future materials! So I don't think we've done too bad ed? {Ed001's Note - you are leaving out the pay offs players get, laughably known as loyalty bonuses, which are a percentage of their contract paid in full to them on leaving a club. They usually number in the millions and are never taken into account by the likes of Sly.}

Thanks ed

22 Jan 2013 18:23:51
Its sad to say for many years we have been blessed with strikers...teams used to envy us with your options and star strikers
1. clive allan
2. lineker
3. klinnsman
4. berba
5. keane
6. greaves
7. villa
8. hoddle our no 10
and many many more feel free to add...now defoe, adi
dempsey...dnt get me wrong i'd put defoe up there too
what a shame com on levy.... rabbit out the hat time
mr g

Don't forget 2 terms of Teddy.

22 jan 2013 20:42:46
chivers
gilzean
peters
archibold

Don't forget Bobby smith

Don't forget gregorz raciak.

Dont forget Ian Moores, Mark Falco, Saha

22 Jan 2013 17:55:33
Does anyone else think the 'oracle' may actually be Damiao himself? Instead of playing games oracle why don't you just sign the contract yourself!?

Essex yod

22 Jan 2013 14:50:40
Only Fulham appear to be interested in Will Hughes. I have watched him on a couple of occasions and he is brilliant. He is very young so should get better as he matures. My only doubt is, why have none of the big clubs snatched him up? Any opinions ?

The Don

Well derby are asking a lot of money for a 17 year old and don't want him to leave this season so with tight budgets its not an ideal signing. Most teams need the players they are buying so it is not as atractive in this window.

derbyshire dave

22 Jan 2013 11:54:39
I have just been catching up on old postings and I see that I angered a fellow Spurs fan, Jermain.

The general point I was making was that the injury to Sandro shouldn't panic us into making short term buys, because there is enough strength and flexibility in the squad to keep us going even if we have additional injuries. However the point that really seemed to upset Jermain was this:

"I would also like to see a stronger Tottenham squad, but I recognize that we can't just add top quality players to what we already have. Realistically, it will have to be quality in, quality out'.

For example, if we bought Moutinho or Sneijder as our playmaker that would probably mean the departure of Dembele, because we can't afford a £15m bench-warmer.

Only a handful of clubs can afford world class cover in every position. We aren't one of them."

Jermain's response was:

"KM you talk bolloc*s!

If we sign a playmaker that means we'll sell Dembele? Omg! Why don't you sit down and watch dembele play and you'll see there's not many players with attributes similar to Dembele. So why on earth would we sell him? Did you know Dembele is playing out of position? Did you know his best position is behind a striker in a free role? Your post is absolutely pathetic! "

I have no idea why he was so upset since he doesn't challenge the general argument and is merely disagreeing with one illustration of it. Even so, I believe he is wrong.

For us, Dembele has been playing as an all round, box-to-box midfield player; the role in which Moutinho, for example, would be first choice. He (and Jermain) might think that his best position is "behind a striker in a free role" but is he capable of playing there in the Premiership?

To play 'in the hole' behind a lone striker, you have to be a regular goal scorer. Dembele has only scored one goal in 14 outings for us to add to the 7 goals in 75 for Fulham (0.08 goals per game). His scoring record for AZ was better, 37 in 160 appearances (0.23) but the Eredivisie is not the Premiership. Moreover his international record of 5 goals in 44 games (0.11) is more consistent with his Fulham strike rate.

To put that in perspective, when VDV played in that role for us he scored 24 in 63 appearances (0.38 goals per game). In terms of goal scoring in the Premiership, it might be better to compare Dembele with Jenus, who has scored 21 in 155 (0.13).

What about Jermain's follow up remark?

"KM, if we sign Moutinho that'll be the end of Dempsey! That's the example you should have used."

No, that is not the example I should have used.

For us, Dempsey has mostly played in the hole behind Defoe as a lone striker and has scored 5 goals in 18 appearances to add to his 50 in 184 for Fulham (0.27 goals per game). Moutinho doesn't play in that position and probably couldn't, because his strike rate for Porto is just 7 in 112 (0.05) and his career record is 39 in 371 (0.10).

I wouldn't dream of playing Dempsey in Moutinho's position or Moutinho in Dempsey's position.

If we could sign Moutinho and keep Dembele that would be fine, but I doubt we could afford to do that and I doubt that we could keep Dembele happy if we did.

I stand by my original posting.
KM

Hey KM,

I think you make some good points with good stats.

Its an interesting debate but I think I would have to agree with jermains opinion though and if moutinho came dembele would push up.

His goal stats haven't been good but at the right team things could change.

Lots of players weren't amazing before they takèe a certain roll at the right club and totally sookh it .

So to end I think dembele could be excellent behind the striker.

Marc

Km, do you not rate dembele? Don't you think someone of his class should be the first name on the team sheet? Can you name me a player that has the ability to drift pass players with ultimate ease as he does?
Statistics do count for something but you can not judge a player purely on stats because that is totaly unfair. statistics don't tell you everything, example: runs he makes 'off' the ball drawing defenders towards him allowing players like clint to get an opportunity etc.
He may not have scored many goals for Fulham but that does not mean he can't do that for better team like spurs.
Did you see the way moussa jiggled his way through the man utd penalty area giving clint to opportunity to score which he failed misserably. Did you see how untouchable he was Further foward? Imagine if we had a player like Lampard who makes them darting runs into the box, I have no doubt he would have scored.
The point I was making is you don't get rid of players who are one if a kind! Modric can easily be replaced but you can't find similar players to dembele or bale.
If you really want to include stats, look up how many games we have won with demblele and without...so why should we replace him. It's players like Dempsey, huddlestone, jenas, Bentley etc that should be replaced!

Jermain

P.s I apologise for going over the top.

Marc

I didn't intend to get into a long debate about Dembele, because that was not what my original post was about. He was just an illustration of the general point that Spurs cannot afford to keep top players sitting around doing nothing. I originally gave other examples as well.

However, this unintended controversy does raise another issue that has long irritated me. Many fans (including many of ours) seem to have the attention span of goldfish. The latest expensive acquisition is always fantastic for a few months, while players that have not been in the squad for a while (including ones that have simply been injured) are suddenly useless.

I will risk the wrath of other fans by giving a few examples.

Gomes was our first choice goalkeeper when we qualified for the Champions League and reached the quarter finals. He was a dominating figure in his area and a great shot stopper, but he made some bad decisions and high profile mistakes. Bringing in Brad Friedel probably strengthened our first team. But that doesn't mean Gomes is suddenly rubbish, like many Spurs fans seem to think.

Similarly, Huddlestone was also an important part of that successful squad. He was injured all last year, so fans have forgotten about him and he too is suddenly a complete waste of space.

Jenus has always been a good quality squad player. He is mobile, carries the ball well, works hard, tracking back to cover his defence, and has never let us down. His only problem is that he is not really top class. But that doesn't make him rubbish either. He is as good as many other squad players that have come and gone in recent years (Malbranque, Kranjcar, Pienaar etc.).

In May 2010, fans voted Dawson our player of the season. He missed most of last season through injury, so he too is suddenly a player fans want out of the club. On Sunday, Caulker made a challenge on Rooney that could have cost a penalty. But Caulker is new boy on the block, so we all forgave him. If Dawson had made that challenge people would have been calling for his head.

Meanwhile, the latest acquisitions are often hailed as superstars before they have done anything to justify it. For example, Vertonghen is clearly a classy player and has made a good impression at left back, but has been sometimes been a bit lightweight in central defence. He needs to toughen up if that is going to be his best position, but you would never guess that if you listened to most Spurs fans.

I would say the same about Dembele. Dempsey was just short term cover for the loss of VDV, while Siggurdssen was a promising squad player to replace Cranjcar, but Dembele was intended to the class act that would help make up for the loss of Modric.

He might soon prove to be exactly that (I hope so), but it is still early days and frankly I have been a bit disappointed in him so far. But many fans have been willing themselves to see the player they want him to be, rather the one he has actually been.
KM
KM {Ed008's Note -

I have to confess to being a little under whelmed by Dembele so - not that I saw him as Modrics replacement either ...I'm just not sure the final outcome of what he does has impact in many games. Maybe I'm missing something but don't think he has been one of our 3 best players this season so far. Now I will sit in the corner and await the onslaught. And for the record I think Sandro, LLoris, Verts and Lennon have all been better to this point.

KM
Fantastic post, agree with many aspects of your post. Fans do forget that these players are still quality, they don't get bad over night or after a injury.
Couple of points though, we have moved forward as a team so need players to compliment that. I wouldn't be happy if we signed a player of the same quality as say malbranque now... Would you? Don't get me wrong I thought he was a fantastic player at that particular time just not for where we heading now.
Also I've been amazed by the quality of Dembele, I think he is amazing and has performed as such so far (can only get better). Can't understand what he is doing wrong in your eyes (maybe if I had to criticise then losing the ball in our half more than I'd like).
Anyway my main reason for this reply was to say I thought it was a great post and agree people (me included) forget to easily how good a player is or was for us. Cheers

22 Jan 2013 07:30:00
From one Spurs fan to all of you, just wanted to get overall idea, if you could only sign one player this window who would you go for. Personally I would go for a target man as I think it would then give us a plan be when teams stick everone behind the ball (like QPR), so i'd go for Llorente. What about everyone else, please join in, lets see what posistion and player we think is most important,
cheers
Mike

I too would go for Llorente, but I would be happy with Negredo or Belhanda. I think we have decent cover for all positions other than striker and a creative attacking-minded playmaker to sit behind the striker, so any of these players would be ideal.

Adam

Tempt liverpools hand with a strong bid for luis suarez? 25m + Dempsey?

Azza

Fantasy...
Suarez
Dembele
Bale, Holtby, Parker, Lennon
Ekotto, Verts, Dawson, Walker
Lloris

reality....
Damiao
Dembele
Bale, Holtby, Parker, Lennon
ekotto, verts, Dawson, Walker
Lloris

sandro and Kabs are not included but would obvi be 1st choice.

Azza

Personally, if we could get holtby in jan and a top striker which we need with or without adebayor I think we would be more than ready to push for the top 3. I'd rather go for a striker ready to hit the ground running rather wait for them to settle in ( Damiao ). Maybe someone like Michu or even a cheaper option in Ricky Lambert?

Rufus

Player - Messi.
Reason - Why not?

To dare is to do ...though I think Messi may be a stretch to far.

I think Soldado would do quite well but we do need another striker.

I think we have just as much chance getting Messi this widow as we do Daimio lol

22 Jan 2013 01:01:16
Oracle can you clarify to me who exactly we are going to sign this jan? List the players below this comment pal and we'll all be able to see the outcome come the end of jan.

I believe we'll be signing one creative midfielder in Holtby and possibly a striker...damiao.

Jermain

Jermain, You are seeking advice from the one individual who has proffered the most unreliable rumors on this page for advice on who we will sign this window. You truly are bit daft. Aside from that he is a broken record so you merely need to search for any of his latest posts: Damiao is already signed yada yada

Annonymous, I'm only saying it because he has named over 10 players that are joining spurs. It's just for humour to be honest. I know he makes the stuff up!

Jermain